Curse

Mekkakat · May 28, 2007, 04:54 AM // 04:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

so...your combo goes dstab exhausting moebius hoto moebiuss...that's not gonna get your target below 50%...I don't even see a deep wound in there...

unless you're in GvG and fighting a warrior..

yeah.. this does get your target to 50% hp if you use it in order. for dervs/rangers/and warriors, simply attack a bit before you start, or just let a few attacks normally pass while chaining.. a good assassin doesnt fire off their chain without some breaks or strategic pauses [I]anyhow[I]. really, NO melee should.. there is just too many things to be afraid of. my version has a powerful set of disrupts, which are simple to understand, great to master, especially like a ranger interrupting 1/2 seconds cast spells. unless you run like.. 11 dagger mastery.. this is more than enough to get a caster below 50% hp, and not ALL builds NEED deep wounds.. if you really want want, option out another skill.. but its fine as is

Kiba of hidden leaf · May 28, 2007, 07:29 AM // 07:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mekkakat

unless you're in GvG and fighting a warrior..

yeah.. this does get your target to 50% hp if you use it in order. for dervs/rangers/and warriors, simply attack a bit before you start, or just let a few attacks normally pass while chaining.. a good assassin doesnt fire off their chain without some breaks or strategic pauses [I]anyhow[I]. really, NO melee should.. there is just too many things to be afraid of.

What your saying is, try to get a mediocre spike every time instead of having a good spike sometimes and a bad one sometimes. Tell me if I am wrong.

Nice vid Yanman.
Rez Sigs FTW

Mekkakat · May 28, 2007, 07:54 AM // 07:54

the "spike" isnt even much of a spike if your talking about Yans. Pressure and KD utility wins every time.

Yanman.be · May 28, 2007, 08:40 AM // 08:40

I run 13 DM I believe...

I run pressure too in this build ( no ias, although you can easily take flurry ).

I've ran your combo before Mekkakat, as a dedicated interrupter( d-dager, d-blow, skull crack(!) )

Against a 600 hp target, solo, I still don't believe you can get a 60AL target below 50% most of the time...proove me wrong!

Kiba of hidden leaf · May 28, 2007, 09:25 AM // 09:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mekkakat

the "spike" isnt even much of a spike if your talking about Yans. Pressure and KD utility wins every time.

The build already has tons of pressure with spammable AoE damage and dash is a better utility than knockdown is.

Yanman.be · May 28, 2007, 11:06 AM // 11:06

No; kd is better, but it's too conditional.

Mekkakat · May 28, 2007, 03:40 PM // 15:40

spike doesnt equal pressure, its not even remotely close. a spike can be spike healed, antispiked, protted, spotted, and covered. pressure creates a riff in the battlefield causing the whole team to have to react differently, and making your target quickly use up all of its utility skills in seconds. a monk trying to prevent KD over and over is going to blast through energy faster, along with his other monk trying to constantly heal him, than if you just killed him and he rezzed, or you did you chain, and it was protted out, migitated, or w/e, and he's fine, and you're down and out for a good bit of time.

my version's faster, with a simple, and while conditional, easily to land KD, causing many problems for any class in the game. the lead and first dual attacks can practically be spammed for higher AL targets, and if for whatever reason you're fighting a person with 600+ (are you talking about GvG or something? where high hp is preferred??? most people never have anything over 560-80, let alone past 600) you can simply .. you know.. attack them.. with your daggers.. till. .you know.. they have less hp.. then do the chain lol.

and again, this build has a much more powerful utility than any DW, and while a faster spike is fun for maybe 4v4, its also much more easily dealt with by seasoned players :/

im also not saying your build is bad, just suggesting something else to try. all opinions bro :P. master the timing of just the first two skills, and what how fast you kill/annoy the hell outta a monk

Yanman.be · May 28, 2007, 04:15 PM // 16:15

You're contradicting yourself.

Quote:

a spike can be spike healed, antispiked, protted, spotted, and covered.

So can pressure.

fact: Your combo has less damage.
fact: Your combo has no deep wound.
fact: Your combo has more interrupts.
fact: 600hp allows me to win against your combo.(if! you'd ever 1on1 )

The only thing I see about your combo is mediocre damage, backed up with interrupts that come before the damage is dealt. I just don't buy that as being viable.

Quote:

you can simply .. you know.. attack them.. with your daggers.. till. .you know.. they have less hp.. then do the chain lol.

I just lost all belief about your post.

phool · May 28, 2007, 05:22 PM // 17:22

If you want a more dedicated KD locking build I'd recommend using siphon speed-BLS/BSS-TF-moebius-horns-moebius, which will actually bring someone below half health (tf or horns used first, doesn't matter). That's 3 slots for death blossom if you want it, something like critical defenses, and IAS and a res left. I've found it very effective in arenas.

Mekkakat's build isn't imo optimised for any pvp situation compared to something like an AoD-blackout mesmer for short term unpredictable shutdown, a standard moebius with death blossom and IAS for pressure or a horns moebius for 4v4 and some split situations.

PS: In RA, critical defenses > self heal. Not that you shouldn't ideally take both.

Mekkakat · May 28, 2007, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

You're contradicting yourself.

So can pressure.

fact: Your combo has less damage.
fact: Your combo has no deep wound.
fact: Your combo has more interrupts.
fact: 600hp allows me to win against your combo.(if! you'd every 1on1 )

The only thing I see about your combo is mediocre damage, backed up with interrupts that come before the damage is dealt. I just don't buy that as being viable.

I just lost all belief about your post.

uh.. first off, your "facts" are incorrect. the combo has less damage, but a higher chance in succeeding in pulling off damage, with much more utility AND a faster recharge.

two, this is a TEAM game, and unless you're scrimmaging 1v1 for some odd reason, you wont be the ONLY damage dealer on your team.

third, interrupting = more chances to kill a target/relieve/migitate damage. anyone knows that.. better to be a team player and kill a target while possibly saving a life than try to unload a shotty, easily stopped gimmick combo...

and four, barely anyone runs more than 550hp for any class/build, unless your in GvG/HA where SOME monks carry a minimum of 580hp. so wherever you're playing that you're fighting 600+hp players.. i'd like to see. seasoned players use something called runes. also, i submitted this build to wiki a long time ago, and it was vetted viable and good in the communities opinion already, so i don't even see why i'm even trying to explain why my build is much more of a team player, backed with a deadly finished/utility.

PRESSURE, can be migitated/protted, but the difference between yours and mine, is i can STOP the protting WHILE doing damage, and on top of that, kill my target. if you get protted.. combos over.. gg.. wait for recharge. Burst Sins (tiger stance shadow prison) builds are a joke. terrible gimmicks that any good player can easily get through, especially with a team backing them up. stop the healing/protting, what does a team have? lemons, and an assassin who's recharge is way faster than yours, who's coming for you next.

if you think you could handle a 1v1 with someone who's played mostly ranger and mesmer, mastering the art of interrupting, i.e. me, come challenge me with your build and watch how fast i stop your silly combo, leaving you open for my "mediocre" damage. w/e

Yanman.be · May 28, 2007, 09:44 PM // 21:44

High chance of succeeding in pulling off damage? Where's your anti-block?

I'm sorry, but I'm pretty sure my combo recharge faster....could be me and my fuzzy math though!!!

I said I modified a previous build of mine for RA. I assume any posts about builds in this thread are also meant to be for RA. I stopped relying on others to do my dirty work( killing ,that is ).

Seasoned players stopped using anything but minor runes since armor swapping is no longer possible, and more damage has become armor ignoring.

Don't attack protted/prottable targets. Not having to take skills because your gameplay allows you to > taking skills to do your dirty work ( same analogy: shadowsteps )

Art of interrupting is nice. I can do it too. low ping, insane fps, itchy fingers and good knowledge of skills is key to success. I'm glad you can do it too.

Oh, and if you ever defend a build by saying it got vetted on wiki....seriously...you might want to consider sticking to pve...

Mekkakat · May 28, 2007, 10:10 PM // 22:10

vetting is a process that is effective on any fansite bro. granted, wiki sucked, but its actually making a strong effort to only put good builds on now.. check again with your resources.

barely anyone uses minor runes except monks/rits. even in the highest end of pvp, they fight dirty with the most damage their skills can produce. armor switching (lack of), and migitating any form of damage whether armor ignoring or not, its part of the game, always has been. also, protting isn't always done in advance, and in fact, is most of the time done right as the target becomes attacked/cast on. i also dont know what recharges you're looking at if you look at just impale, let alone the rest. your DW is cool, dont get me wrong, and in fact the whole build is viable, but in RA, where you're not knowing of whats going to happen (this is true in all pvp regardless), you should be able to mix attack and utility, not just kill kill kill, no defense, no main form of team based play. killing "alone", and not relying on your team killed most of what you said.

also, why would i need anti block? i interrupt blocking moves.. stances are something that are even easier to bypass with waiting for 5 seconds. and regardless, if the only source of damage you have is melee, and stances are your problem, maybe you should make a better team build.. not every build can counter everything, and even so, KD abd interupts stops way more than your spike.

anyhow, i know you know how to play, i know you know assassins, i was just trying to give MY opinions on the build.. i mean. .thats why you put it on here lol.. not praise lol. lets leave it at, "you do what works for you", cause i'm one of the biggest problems for people in small arena, ESPECIALLY ra. so if it's been working for me for months on end, i guess something about my version works lol. regardless, gj, and gl with your build. take care.

ArKaiN · May 29, 2007, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Erm, if I may say something:
I've tested both mek and yan's builds.
Mek is pretty good because it has tons of disruption, and when you get used to it, you can pretty much shut down a monk.
Yan's dishes out tons of damage fast, and goes right through blocking stances/enchantments. Neither deals with being blinded, so I'll go out on a limb here and say neither is for 1x1.
They're extremely different styles of play, and both are pretty successful at what they do. I'm not sure what they're trying to accomplish by debating which is better, since the only thing in common between the two builds is the fast that they're dagger sins.
Both are good. Can you guys live with that?

Mekkakat · May 29, 2007, 01:11 AM // 01:11

lol, i'm cool with that. i didn't feel as though us arguing made any sense anyhow. oh well, bygones are bygones, gg, hf

Yanman.be · May 29, 2007, 08:44 AM // 08:44

Mekkakat's is indeed very good at interrupting. And I do know interrupts are deadly in RA. It's just that...the damage on that buid isn't "awesome" enough for me